For the year there's a general plan. For the month, there's a pretty tight plan. For the week, everything is planned down to $100. That is enough money for one doctor co-pay, two period emergencies, and two food emergencies. There's three months of expenses in savings that never gets spent (and took me over a year to save).
Josh plans in a totally different way than I do. I plan money and time and school and housing and food. Josh plans time with friends and trips and school, in that order for the most part. I am done with school in two and a half years (except I'm thinking of signing up for summer classes this summer). Josh is done with school in five and a half years.
Tonight we were talking about planning for both of us, and Josh was saying we need to plan for each other. I do not know how to do this. I know how to plan for my sisters, who can tell me what they want, and I will like consider it but ultimately do what is most affordable and best for all three of us. If I say no to something they want, they shrug and give up and move on. I don't know how to plan for Josh. So I asked.
me: what do you want me to plan for you?
Josh: time for me.
me: okay like how much?
Josh: two weeks of vacation a year, a month when we graduate, a month after I finish law school, and two weeks together somewhere after college
me: for what?
Josh: our honeymoon!
me: we're getting married?
Josh: aren't we?
And that's how we wound up discussing marriage, this totally foreign concept to me. Josh has brought it up before, but I always thought he was joking around. I was shocked he wants to get married for real, and he was shocked I didn't see myself getting married.
Josh: didn't you grow up planning your wedding when you were little?
me: no
Josh: don't you secretly have colors and themes and flowers picked out?
me: no!
Josh: really?
me: look, my nana wasn't married. my mom wasn't married. they were great, and they were my role models. to me, they are what girls grow up to become. girls don't grow up to become women wearing sweater-sets and pearls, who join the PTA and have dinner on the table when their husband comes home.
Josh: wow.
me: okay that's not true - my mom was in the PTA for a couple of years.
We probably spent a half hour with Josh half playing himself, half playing a shrink, working up to him asking if I could see myself NOT being the third generation of females in my family to be single, but instead getting married, even if that means I wear black tank tops rather than sweater-sets. Eventually, I sort of could.
My style is kind of direct.
me: so when do you want to get married? i want to graduate first.
Josh: well yeah. but we have to get engaged first anyway.
me: okay so when do you want to do that?
Josh: actually I sort of wanted to talk to you about that...
me: what?
Josh: I want to make sure of us, that we're like solid.
me: how?
Josh: I mean without your sisters. I want to be sure we're solid without them around always being a distraction.
me: is that why you sent them out for dinner tonight?
Josh: well yeah.
It felt like I'd been slammed in the chest with a hammer. The only worse thing Josh could have said was that he wanted to break up and I need to move out by Friday. I could feel my face completely fall, and was blinking back tears.
Josh: nobody's being kicked out Sam.
me: .... (i couldn't talk because if i did, crying would happen)
Josh: it's not unrealistic to want to live with my girlfriend without her two little sisters around all the time
me: your family barely ever talks to your sister
Josh: I don't want to banish your sisters. they don't have to move across the country and only call to check in once a year.
me: so what ...?
Josh: maybe when Dani goes to college she and Al could get a one bedroom? Dani could do for her and Alex what you did for the three of you when you were starting college.
me: did you tell them already?
Josh: no, I'm talking to you first, now.
I basically hyperventilated through the whole thing. Josh was really calm through the whole thing. I can't explain his reasoning, but he talked and talked and it got to the point where I agreed eventually that it made sense, and by the end I was laughing when he said, "I want to be able to joking tell you 'go get me a beer, bitch' and not worry that when your sisters see it they think they should put up with that shit, or allow themselves to be talked to that way by their boyfriends."
I can't believe I remembered enough to paraphrase - the entire talk turned into such a vague whirlwind after Josh dropped his bomb. Even though if I were honest, he's sort of made noise about not liking living with Danielle and Alex. Danielle has wanted to go to sleep-away camp and an away college, so she might like the idea of her and Alex moving in together. I am exhausted, and I guess, just agreed to get engaged. Or something. I need my mom.
14 comments:
If you and Josh break up, I want him. What a great guy...what a great plan. I love it. Congrats!
I think its completely normal that a guy in his early twenties might want to live alone with his girlfriend. You've been a de facto parent forever and focus pretty tightly on the day to day. But kids grow up eventually, and usually move out around/after college. So Alex might be out between 5 and 9 years from now (depending on where she goes to college).
Right now I am dreaming of the day when my kids are old enough to leave with my inlaws for a week, and my husband and I could take a vacation, and I can sleep through the night without anyone peeing in my bed. Its not happening anytime soon, probably 3 to 4 years from now? But I certainly dream about it.
Same for Josh--I'm sure he's looking forward to the day he can lay around in his boxers, pollute the toilet without teenage girls wrinkling their nose at him, and take you away on vacation at a moment's notice without having to plan around two other people. It sounds like he's just planting the seeds of the idea in your head.
I am a bit confused---if Dani goes to an away college, Alex will transfer to a new high school in a different town/state to live with he?
Could you perhaps move to a different neighborhood and get two smaller apartments right next to each other? You'd be right there but not right in there. Josh might feel more like its just the two of you, but you'd be close enough to stay close with Dani and Alex.
Just a thought for the future. I'm sure you'll come up with something that works for everyone.
Go slowly. there is no rush to become engaged. You are both young and do not have to make serious decisions quickly.
gmg
You are young, and there is no rush. I don't blame you for never doing that imaginary wedding planning when you were little-it was not your role model. Your mother and grandmother were strong and independent, and it served you well. The idea of close-by separate apartments sounds great.
When my spouse and I met, I had two daughters. We started our relationship with children, much like you and Josh did (only with siblings). I see why he dreams of living alone with you. The time will come, and when you are ready for it. You're the planner.
Grown up life is confusing and weird sometimes. You had to grow up very young. Hang in there. I admire you.
OK here are my raw thoughts. Before you and Josh officially get engaged you two need to get on the same page. You both live in entirely different worlds, even though you live together and you both need to be able to understand and acknowledge that. I see how it's hard for you to understand his world of fortune and freedom and you need to accept that. But he also needs to see and understand your world and how much it means to you. I dearly want you to be happy but I worry about the constant misunderstandings and resentment that might go along the way.
I understand Josh wanting to live with just you and experience that side, but I also understand your fear of not being with your sisters - they have been and are your life. You are their rock. And this is the package deal that Josh is agreeing to become engaged to. You don't get to release your relatives and in your case, your sisters are your only immediate family. Josh doesn't have that same relationship with his family and may not understand that. That said - he can overcome it but my fear is he will want to pull away and you will never be able to (and rightfully so).
I think you both can do it if you both want it. But you both have to be on the same page emotionally and have an agreement on the big things in life being family, money, and long term goals.
On a side note, I think you are doing a fantastic job with the hand that life has dealt you. You are amazing and are such a great model for your sisters. I know it's been tough and I'm sure some days you would just like to run away from it all but know that you are an inspiration and your mom would be very proud of you.
The way I see it, you're a mum to Dani and Alex. I'm a single mum and any guy who suggested that he couldn't wait til my kid was old enough to move out (she's 5) would be shown the door. But you're working with a different set of circumstances; your kids are teenage sisters who will have to leave sooner than later.
I like the suggestions of having side-by-side apartments. Not sure what housing is like in NY, but in Toronto it would be easy enough to rent 2 2-bdrm appts in a single highrise building, or even buy a home that's been divided into apartments. Close, but separate.
I think it would be nice for you and Josh to live on your own. You have had way too much responsibility at a young age, and Dani is certainly getting old enough that she could take over your role for Alex when she graduates from high school. It's only fair for you to get to have a chance to live like a young person, rather than acting as a mom all the time.
Noelle
Jrex and I just had one of those doozy conversations. They ARE completely exhausting. Good in the sense that you both end up with a more clear sense of where things are, but hard for the same reason.
I had a similar thought as the other comments that apartments close by each other might be an easier step than just having them both move away. The difficulty with Dani going away for school and Alex going with her is that most of those sorts of schools involve dorm life being a key part of the social world. Living off-campus from the start would limit Dani's friendships and overall experience. Because you're in more of a commuter school (people live at home and drive to college), there's less of that social hub.
It's wise of Josh to want to see if there's an 'us' there that's not you + your sisters. As others have said, that involves a balancing act since there's no way you'd want to NOT have your sisters as a huge part of your life. You are in a strange world where you're not technically their mother, yet in all practical ways, you are. In many ways, you and Josh have had to jump ahead to some very mature roles. There's wisdom to pausing to check who you both are without those shoes to fill (while knowing they won't ever go away).
It sounds like you both handled a really tough conversation in a great way.
This is a totally random thought. What if Dani goes away to school and Alex lives with Josh's parents? Just for a year or something. To see what that's like. None of you may be up for that option, just a thought.
Very proud of you, Sam! (Envious too.)
I'll just say congratulations on all of it...big steps, big conversation, honesty, and a lot of respect...good for you all around.
oh Sam I've gone to comment on this post like 3 times then erased it.i was happy for you reading that josh wants you to marry him however it made me sad to think of Alex hearing that she and Danni would be expected to live on their own. i know you deserve separateness but poor Alex.you are essentially her mom.will she feel abandoned /rejected by you?is Danni able to do what you've done for them? josh knew that loving you and being with you means you're a group deal.no one would expect you to parent your sisters forever but from what I've read thru the years is that its you who was capable of taking over your moms role.you made a home for you and your sisters.a selfless incredibly giving act on your part.I'm sure you wouldn't do any thing to hurt Alex.I'm not sure if josh is thinking the same way.would Alex be a sophomore in HS living with Danni next year? could you wait till Alex goes off to college? or do you fear you'll loose josh?i wouldn't blame him for begrudging your sisters for his lack of freedom.its really not fair for any of you. sorry but I just thought about Alex and how you would broach the subject without feelings of abandonment.please don't take this in the wrong way but it was the first time i felt that josh was taking you away from your sisters.cant they just live next door?
To the last Anon, Al's in 9th and Dani is in 11th. So Al will be going into 11th when Dani is starting college. By then she may be more grown up and less interested in following me around like a puppy dog all day.
It will cost more for two apartments, even if D&A share a 1 bedroom, and I don't think Josh will want to downsize any more than he already has.
Alex will deal. For all I know two years from now Josh and I could be broken up. I can't worry about Future Alex now, you know?
Sam,thanks for responding.I thought Dani was going to college this fall.so thanks for clearing that up.Alex in 11th grade is a way different feel than thinking she would be in the 9th grade.and sorry but that was funny thinking about her following you around like a puppy, she has separation issues and your the one she's going to have to work that thru with! lucky you.lol but oh you are so right Sam... you cant worry out something two years from now! you're a good person Sam.enjoy your vacay puppy free.sorry if I sounded harsh on josh.
p.s.In the interim though ,do you think when you and josh have time off together maybe sending Alex and Dani out so the both of you can have some extended alone time might be a fun thing to do? josh can say bitch get me a beer and you can pummel him without any interruptions? sounds kinda fun.
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